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Share Your Comments on Meal Pattern Implementation Progress

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September 17, 2012 – As school districts across the nation work to meet the new meal pattern requirements, SNA is creating a new forum for school nutrition professionals to discuss implementation of the new standards, celebrate successes and share ideas for overcoming challenges. SNA is inviting members to post comments below. Tell us what is working in your cafeterias, which changes are a more difficult sell, any feedback you’ve received from students or parents, and your successful tips for smoothing the transition. Learn from your colleagues, benefit from positive ideas from other parts of the country, and share your experience.

SNA will follow the conversation as we continue to collect comments and feedback from members to share with our colleagues at USDA. And don’t forget to visit www.schoolnutrition.org/mealpattern for SNA’s meal pattern implementation tools. We continue to update this site with the latest news and resources from SNA and USDA to help you understand and meet the new requirements.

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Meal Pattern Resource Center

Posted by Admin1 at 9/17/2012 2:45 PM

Four weeks into the school year and I am pleasantly surprised! Our kids are GREAT! We decided to do two grain on every day but Wednesday - everything we serve on Wednesday's is one grain. We use "Goldfish" shaped sandwich bread for deli's and salads. We offered five entrees last year and have been able to continue to offer those choices. Biggest challenge - our little ones missed PBJ on Wednesday's so we had to find a way to give them a one grain PBJ - AND WE DID IT! Our staff has responded positively and we have looked at challenges as opportunities to work together on solutions.
Posted by: Sandra Ford( Visit ) at 9/17/2012 3:47 PM


Glad to hear Sandy's report as we also are finding kids are gobbling up our meals. My fear that secondary students would be unhappy without their extra French bread did not come true. We think that our communications to families, faculty and students through newsletters, media and point of sale info did the job! Our biggest challenge was having to reduce the offerings of brown rice as we have a very diverse population that loves rice.
Posted by: Jean Ronnei at 9/17/2012 6:09 PM


It has been extremly challenging especially because our 86 District Procument Alliance bid went out to manufacturers and distributors before the publishing of the new regulations. I also found it difficult to get the needed number of calories at the 9-12 level. Fruit, vegetables and salads do not have a lot of calories.
Posted by: Beth Palien at 9/18/2012 1:22 PM


Our students have taken to the changes well. Many of them are actually eating the required fruit or vegetable, and many take more than just the minimum. We, too, are having the same problem that Beth noted with the 9-12 grade level. It's very difficult to reach the minimum 750 calories with the reduced sized grains/meat without adding a bunch of "fluff" (baked chips, frozen fruit bars. We're working our way there, but it's going to cost a lot...much more than the extra $0.06. There needs to be a more reasonable approach to reaching calories when implementing offer vs. serve. You don't get 750 calories from a small entree and a bunch of fruits and vegetables with many of those being fresh.

Overall, I am pleased with the positive response from the students, but I think there is still some work that needs to happen to make the new requirements work in real-world situations. Meeting the grain ranges has proven more than a challenge when offering choices...and most schools offer choices nowadays. Increasing the limit just a little or counting differently would make a world of difference.
Posted by: Crystal Thill( Visit ) at 9/18/2012 1:34 PM


We also are challenged we have many diabetics in our district and are having to change up the menu to accommodate the restrictions on the bread/grain so there is not consistency to show them on the carbohydrates. Also I am extremely concerned about the sodium restrictions. If we could not count the naturally occurring sodium in vegetables and milk it would help alot. The reimbursement of additional 6 cents is not realistic with the expectations and menu choices we have had to adjust. The minimums and maximums does not allow for 1 protein option everyday of the week even under offer vs. serve. Calories are hard to hit with fruits and veggies as already stated. The intent was wonderful and the students are adapting quickly to the fruit and veggie requirement. Good Luck to us all!! I hope USDA hears our concerns and takes another look at the regulations to ensure success.
Posted by: Toni Silbernagel at 9/18/2012 2:47 PM


Biggest problem is hitting calories on offer vs. serve. Can't add grain for younger students. Adding items just to hit caloric requirements is adding food cost and empty calories to a student's diet.
Elementary students miss their PB&J - we only offer once a week now. Commodity orders were placed back in February and USDA regulations weren't finalized, so I am finding I have some items I won't be able to use, or will use less of this school year.
Posted by: Kathlee Poor at 9/18/2012 2:52 PM


Like some of the others, we are struggling with our secondary schools calories. Unlike another comment, our students are missing their grains very much. They love the fresh fruit, but because of cost, I can't let them have 3 bowls of it. Our athletes are not getting the calories they need and all of our students are missing the cinnamon roll with the taco.
Posted by: Analee Knudsen( Visit ) at 9/18/2012 3:05 PM


I am simply losing my mind trying to make my menus meet the requirements especially when it comes to the calories. Also every time I think I have it worked out the manufacturers change the specs on products and I have to re-evaluate the whole thing. I cannot for the life of me figure out how I will ever get to a point where I can get my menus certified. There are just not enough hours in the day and I am totally responsible for figuring all of this out.
Posted by: Cynthia Witte at 9/18/2012 3:09 PM


I have read all the comments and agree with all of you! This is a challenge to get these menus exactly right. Just when I think I have it down I think I will have to change them. I feel the most for the 6-8 grade. I think they are the group that is getting not enough to eat. Their servings are not much more than grade school. I do have to say we are going through much more fruits and veggies. And I have not heard much negative comments from either Parents or students. Hopefully this will get easier as we go along?!
Posted by: Judy Shafer at 9/18/2012 3:16 PM


We didn't have to change our menus too much since we had received the gold awards for the HUSSC. The kids haven't really noticed any difference except the size of the hamburgers, lack of cheeseburgers and the size of the slices of pizza. My only problem is the waste of forcing the fruit or vegetable and also not being able to give these students an extra bread or something if they are hungry. More often than not the students of our district are not eating at home much less eating anything healthy. I just don't want to send them home hungry when they don't get to eat until breakfast. The regs are written assuming all children eat a healthy meal at home and the reality is they aren't eating at home period. As Mrs. Obama said - we don't want undone what is done at home...and also that she wishes the same food served at school that is served at home...well...what if it's nothing at home? Overall as I said, we didn't have to change much of what we were doing other than a few portion sizes on certain meat items at the HS level. Participation is the same or better so that isn't the problem. Hungry kids will eat what we have. I just hope they aren't going home hungry anxious to get back to their safe environment to have something to eat. The NLSP was created because of malnutrition in our young adults wishing to get in the military...hope we don't see malnutrition again since kids aren't eating at home and only get 650 calories at lunch. IMHO
Posted by: April Pinkham at 9/18/2012 3:16 PM


Absolutely not enought calories...even for the younger kids. They are starved by the time school is out. Also, our participation is suffering!
Posted by: Dawn Seay at 9/18/2012 3:20 PM


Our menu looks basically the same but the portion sizes have changed. All new regulations were sent to parents in an email in the summer and placed on the website. We have had parent complaints about the decrease in portion sizes of the main entrees. The students miss the breadstick with rotini and the cheese with burgers. Our counts have decreased over 300 lunches daily. I have stood by the garbage pails and watched untouched apples,oranges,
and bananas being thrown away. We are not only serving sliced oranges. Our produce bill has tripled! The regulations have good intentions but I think that they need to increase the maximums in grains/proteins.
Posted by: Beth Krause, RD, CDN at 9/18/2012 3:23 PM


We are struggling with the students and parents adjusting to the portion sizes. I realize it is a learned behavior with our "super sized' society and with everything, change takes time. Has anyone send correspondence addressing this concern to families? We had done all the 'pre-season' work e.i. letting them know the new regs, but I would like to send something out now that the year has actually started stating something like "yes, we feel your pain, but please note"....for example. Anyone willing to share?
Posted by: Cheri O'Connor( Visit ) at 9/18/2012 3:25 PM


The menu is well accepted by our students as a whole. Fruit and vegetable consumption is definitely up. However, we are having a HUGE issue with non-reimburseable meals for free and reduced eligible students. Despite encouragement, cajoling adn sometimes outright begging they will not take a fruit or a vegetable. We need more nutrition education for families raising young children. My financial losses on these meals could top 50K if we are unable to convince students to take the fruit or veggie.
Posted by: Susan Peterman at 9/18/2012 3:32 PM


I am happy with some of the new ideas but some of them are totally unrealistic. Protein sizes are not enough for growing teenagers. Fresh fruits and veggies are working out very well, they just need more salt allowance. Hard to cook fresh dark greens without it. I think it is good that we do not offer potato's everyday. Bread serving is difficult with subs, but we are making it work. Change is always difficult at first.
Posted by: Tammy Bean at 9/18/2012 3:36 PM


I think the students are enjoying the variety of fresh fruits and vegetables we are offering this year, but I have heard comments from students and parents at the secondary level that students are not getting enough to eat. Several high school student that were regular customers last year are taking cold lunch this year. I wish USDA would have been more generous with the grains for grades 9-12. Fruits and vegetables metabolize quickly and leave students feeling hungry within short period of time. More whole grains would better fit their calorie needs and keep them feeling satisfied longer. Even though we allow students to self serve their fruits and vegetables, I struggle getting the calorie level where it needs to be for grades 9-12 with limited grains and meat/meat alternate.
Posted by: Jodi Hoff at 9/18/2012 3:40 PM


My organization is an RCCI - we are youth corrections and our kids are with us 24/7. Many are engaged in physical activity and work programs throughout the day, and they are hungry. They don't get to go home to fill up when they don't get enough from our kitchens...not even on the weekends. It's hard to make them wait until dinner to get full, and I can't see how that is healthy for those youth. On a positive note, they are definitely eating all of their fruits and vegetables, and seem to be liking them too. I agree, too, that the idea of the new rules is great. Our kids need to learn to take better care of themselves, and HHFKA will help with that - especially when they see this in our programs and then again when they're out and back in the schools. But I also think there are some bugs that need to be worked out.
Posted by: Stephanie Higbee at 9/18/2012 3:48 PM


i think the new guidelines are very unrealistic.. kids that are in athletics and other activities are not getting enough to sustain them through the day. Then there are the farm and ranch kids that have to go home and work for a few hours doing chores, they arent getting enough calories to keep them going until supper. Add to that any students that may have a physical disability. They will expend twice the calories as the average person does, just trying to accomplish the simplest tasks.
My 2 questions are this.. do the people who championed these guidelines eat these portions and calories and do they feed their children the new guidilines of portions and calories? If it isn't practiced at home why are we expected to make it work at school.
Posted by: wendy shreeve at 9/18/2012 3:55 PM


i think we are doing to many changes in one year. the kids hate it. we have so many bring their lunch and our participation is down. we had such good food when i started food service 7 years ago. i work at the school and my son still packs his lunch. i think we should serve good food and let it be the parent choice if they let there kid eat with us or not. we as a whole are gonna lose the fight and that just means our jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Melanie at 9/18/2012 4:09 PM


In our little non-public school, we started implementing last school year, so the change was not as noticeable when school started. Our kids are big fruit and vegetable eaters and are socially conscious enough not to waste, but the number who are finding they need to buy a second portion of entree a la carte to meet their energy needs has increased significantly. Great for the school meals budget initially, but some parents have chosen to start sending lunch from home instead and now the participation is slipping (they already pay tuition and this is just one more expense). Last year they had sliced bread or rolls available every day to help fill up. Many compliments from staff, who are reporting they are losing weight. The biggest challenges are being able to find products, correctly procured of course, that are adaptable to the menus we have worked out, and then adjusting or developing recipes that are well seasoned but lower in sodium and fat. That task seems to have no end.
Posted by: Nancy at 9/18/2012 4:23 PM


We continue to remained challenged by the new requirements. We are observing a significant increase in food waste. Students are upset that they have to be served a fruit or vegetable when they don't want it and in the end we actually have witnesed the students throwing food right into the trash. What are we really accomplishing here? A lot of food is being wasted. Food expense is up to well over 25% higher than it was this time last year and what is so concerning that much of the food prepared is not been eaten and ends up in the trash. I am hopeful that legislation can look at these new regulations and change them to make them more accomondating to the student and allows school food service operations to remain fiscally strong. At this rate we will be in the red at the end of this year with all this food waste.
Posted by: Jennifer at 9/18/2012 4:26 PM


We've lost at least 25% of our participation. Parents are complaining as are the kids. Calories, portion sizes, proteins, and grains are insufficient. Kids in rural areas sometimes ride the bus until 6:00pm at night and they are telling the bus drivers they are hungry. We have had too many changes too soon that are unrealistic. Kids made to take a fruit or vegetable take it directly to the trash. Food cost has doubled. 6cents does not cover the cost and certainly doesn't justify all the time spent in doing the reports. Just as school food service was getting a reputation for good foods with multiple choices, we have to explain why we have taken the food away from the kids. One student wanted to know why we were eating like prisoners.
Posted by: Linda Wright at 9/18/2012 4:48 PM


Our district has a free and reduced rate of 67%. Many of our kids do not get much to eat at home and are not getting enough at school to tide them over until breakfast the next day. Fruits and veggies are going over better than expected, but kids are still hungry. Need to get parents and kids to contact their congress person and senator to tell them that the new meal pattern needs some changing - increase grains and protein.
Posted by: Kris at 9/18/2012 5:06 PM


I also believe we are trying to make to many changes to fast. My participation is down by 25% and I have to agree, the kids playing sports ared not getting enough to eat. I too am having a hard time meeting my calorie for high school level and having a difficult time doing production records because of my middle school being in with my high school. I'm all for eating healthier, however when the state cuts money from schools where do the schools cut. Sports, gym etc. Kids need to exercise more and get active. They can't be doing well in any activities if they are hungry. Just to much to quick!
Posted by: Rhonda at 9/18/2012 5:20 PM


The elementary kids are enjoying all of the fresh fruits & veggies; their plates are full, and they are eating it all. The high school kids are not happy. I have a lot of high schoolers who are bringing bag lunches from home "in protest" of the school meals. No matter how many times I explain that this is a nation-wide change to school lunches, they just don't want to hear it. My meal counts are down, and this will not help the foodservice budget. Parents have filed complaints, also, even though I sent newsletters home in May and August highlighting the changes, published an article in the local paper, and it has been on local and national tv news.I think eveyone in Washington who voted for this mandate should come to a school, eat the small portions, and then go out to play sports after school with our high school athletes. Those people need to experience what our kids do.
Posted by: Jo Lange, SNS at 9/18/2012 5:23 PM


How can the Healthy Kids Act help hungry children when the children come to school and still they are hungry. Where does this get us. School Lunch is all some of these students get!!!
Posted by: Rhonda at 9/18/2012 5:23 PM


The kids have been very upset with the little amount of food they get! We serve 6-8 grades and they get the same amount of food as the elementary kids. They are still so hungry after eating their lunch. Lots of complaints!!!
Posted by: Ann Holzli at 9/18/2012 5:36 PM


I truly understand the reasons behind the meal pattern changes, but I am still finding it difficult to implement some of them. The students at my small parochial school definiteky enjoy their meals, and, since we learned of some of the changes awhile ago, we have been able to phase some in gradually. The factor I am having the most difficulties with is the mandatory fruit or vegetable selection, specifically the vegetable! We have strived to get the students to just take a "taste", and to "try" vegetables that are something other than French fries! We were making some progress with different vegetables in various subgroups. Then we were informed that for "offer vs serve" the vegetable component would need to be 3/4 cup! So much for getting my kindergartners and younger grades to "try" something! That's way too large a vegetable serving requirement for elementary students. If we're about nutrition education, we can certainly do better than forcing large amounts of vegetables, that will ultimately end up in the garbage, on young students who are picky eaters to begin with. I think that some of the new regulations border on micro management and do not give those of us working on the "front lines" enough credit for offering healthy meals to our students.
Posted by: JoAnn Binsfeld at 9/18/2012 6:00 PM


I am going to leave alone the resentment I feel when the government is forcing such radical change upon us while at the same time allowing government sponsored EBT cards to be used at the local doughnut shop and supposedly eventually at fast food restaurants. That is for another rant.
Again this feels like a good idea gone too far. Did we need to make changes? Yes. I don't think there is much argument there. But I feel we have gone too far too fast. Go skim/1% milk- excellent. Whole grains- excellent. No trans fats- excellent. Increase offerings in different and healthier fruit and veg- excellent. Set realistic limits on all food items and categories such as fats- already in place. Go ahead and prohibit deep fryers in kitchens- could be a good idea. In just these steps vast improvements could be made and meals much healthier. Unfortunately it has, as mentioned earlier, gone too far too fast. In any education reform in the last 25+ years, this is unfortunately the norm, not the exception. Disturbingly this is dealing with hungry children with little to few options other than us.
We have a large percentage of our population that right now is struggling and in far too many cases facing malnutrition. Now is the time to eat healthier but as a former director once told us, make sure they are fed and fed well. Feed them what they will eat. Worry later about the details, just fill their empty stomachs. That should be our goal. Make wise and needed changes but don't leave them hungry. I fear that this new regulation is not meeting that logical end.
Posted by: Will at 9/18/2012 6:20 PM


Complaints
Lots of waste
WE ARE NOT THE CAUSES OF OBESITY
Posted by: christine schwitzerlett at 9/18/2012 6:48 PM


The participation in my school has gone down to 70.0 percent. Last year it was over 80. I see lunch boxes with lunchables, subs, and pbj. These kids have had school lunch once or twice, and decided it wasn't worth the hassle. We have to cajole kids to take a fruit and veggie. They don't want it. We see a lot of waste. The volumes of trash are sad to see when so many homeless people are hungry. This is not working in my district, and I may lose a worker because the participation is so low in my school.
Posted by: Lunchroom person in Georgia at 9/18/2012 6:53 PM


We are having a difficult time with the students adjusting to the new recipes and portion sizes. There is A LOT more food waste than before. The children are throwing away the fruit and vegetables. And as Linda posted our children feel like they are receiving prison food was well. Some children this is the ONLY hot meal they receive and we are failing them as well.
Posted by: Glenda Dixon at 9/18/2012 8:01 PM


I first want to thank all directors or whoever in your district who did all the rearranging of their menus to meet the new regulations. My director let me in on what it entailed and I told her they have just made a ton of paperwork for these people. I applaud the comment by Wendy who wonder if the people who make these regulations really eat this way. When I started in food service, I thought our main objective was to serve a meal that tasted good and that the students liked. The initial idea of promoting students to eat more fruits and vegetable is a good idea. When the food isn't tasty they aren't going to eat it. I was overjoyed to learn today, that the commodity strawberries that USDA had committed to districts this year has sugar on them so now we can also go back to using frozen strawberries that are sliced and have sugar on them. I personally think that some vegetables such as frozen spinach needs a little salt. If next years regulations are pushing for even less sodium some of our vegetables aren't going to taste very good. I will admit that some canned foods have too much sodium and industry can cut some of that. Yes, food cost are up and the extra .06 isn't going to be enough. In our district we are able to have a share table that if the students don't want to eat the fresh fruit or their milk they can place it in the share pan and students can take fruit out of it or at the end of the week we can donate it to a homeless shelter. At least it isn't all going in the trash by being able to do this. I keep telling people who are complaining to write their state and federal representatives and Mrs. Obama.
Posted by: Rita Wobker on 9/18/2012 at 7:30PM
Posted by: Rita Wobker at 9/18/2012 8:15 PM


We too are seeing an increase in waste as students simply throw out the fruits or veggies they were required to take. The old saying "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." applies here. Our participation at the middle school where I work is down slightly but the amount of produce we're going through has gone way up.
Posted by: Joanne at 9/18/2012 8:16 PM


I believe the guidelines are a step in the right direction, but need to be "tweaked" a little.
Following is an email I received from our wonderful principal today, "I think we may be headed for a riot! We need a healthy food vending machine for sure at both school sites. The lunches are just not filling up the older students. I hear about it every day. What I worry about is that they have to spend their own money even after eating lunch.
Let's put our heads together. I hate to think that our students will start bringing their own lunches with sandwiches and “things” in them to get them through the day and sporting events, because we also need the $ for the lunch program."

Most growing teenage boys have very high calorie requirements. I don't believe the maximum allowance meets their needs for lunch. As far as making up calories, I'd much rather add some in the form of a larger entree or another half of a whole grain equivalent than to have to add something of lower nutrient density. A little relaxation of the maximum protein and whole grain allowance may be in order. I also believe that the sodium goals are unrealistic as we attempt to make the meals appealing to the students, especially given the background sodium already in the diet.
We have a very supportive administration at our school. The principal has supported us 100% as we met the HealthierUS School Challenge, provided extra nutrition education and physical activity programs,and enforced a strong wellness policy. We have always provided whole grains and unlimited fruits (including fresh every day)and vegetables. I applaud the emphasis on these foods. From experience I can tell you that the children will get used to them and you will gradually see less waste over time.
Posted by: April Dean, Ph.D., R.D.( Visit ) at 9/19/2012 12:09 AM


I'm really struggling this year. We are a small k-12 school, I do the cooking, serving, ordering and now, a tremendous amount of bookwork. I'm finding that I don't have the time I need to count all the calories, salt, sat. fat, etc., plus do what I always loved doing, serving and interacting with the students. I feel that the new regs. have good intentions, but are not realistic. Scratch cooking has gone out the window and replaced with more processed meals. Is this really better for our students? I do a lot of farm to school so having the fresh fruit and veggies is not a problem, but the amount of waste is staggering. Does anyone know, are ala carte items held to the same regs.?
Posted by: Janis at 9/19/2012 6:15 AM


I am having a hard time with the grain component, as it is very limiting, and has taken away the opportunity to offer variety with whole grain salads, rice, etc. if you are serving a sandwich or slice of pizza. The menus are blah as a result. I also wish that the feds had settled on 1 portion size or another, and not come up with the complicated portioning with fruit/veg servings. The fact that 1/2 cup min is needed for it to be reimbursable, but if they take both, it has to be a full portion. This is too complicated for cashiers, and with 20 minute lunch periods, we don't have time to send kids back to get what they need. We do our best. Finally, I went with the recommendation to write cycle menus to make sure we are meeting all the weekly requirements. However, what if there is a split/short week? It throws off all the figures for the week. I'm sure all the kiddies are going to lose weight this year, for sure!
Posted by: Janice Watt at 9/19/2012 7:50 AM


We are losing alot of our participation at the middle and high schools. I have observed at least 1/2 of my middle school students are now packing. This building had a ADP of 80% last year. Close to one third of my high school kids are now packing too. The biggest complaint is that students are hungry and that entree sizes are just to small. Espically if students go right to an after school activity. As a district with free breakfast for all and 65% free and reduced I worry that my kids are not getting the good foods they need. We have done lots of fresh fruits and veggies for years and always had kids who took them because they wanted them...not because that were being forced to take something. Our waste is so much more than it was, espcially on days when the sub group being served is something they have never seen or tasted before. Our kids took alot of veggies because we served green beans, corn, carrots and yes, potato products they liked. I think this was just too much too soon and should have been phased in at a much slower pace. I have no idea what we will do when sodium limits us even more. Have you had steamed spinach with out butter or salt? Well let me tell you as a parent of vegan kids even they would not eat it! I took pride in the very healthy menus we offered and now I am sad to see hungry kids every day deciding not to eat.
Posted by: stacy coggeshall at 9/19/2012 8:28 AM


We have lost about 20% of our participation also. We are having problems meeting the calories and the students are not getting full on the vegetables and fruits. They don't like not having cheese with their hamburgers. I am finding it hard to even offer a small cookie for my elmentary students. I have also had a hard time finding bread that only counts as one and half breads that I can afford. We tried making our own and it failed. We use to make our own bread but found it more cost effective to buy it but now I am struggling on what to do. I am not seeing alot of fruits and veggies wasted but our students are still hungry when they get done with lunch so I have some students buying second lunches with some parents are not like also. I think we need to go about this slowly not so much at one time. I do all my paperwork and am finding it very difficult to get it all done at work and I have had to have a staff come in and hour and half just to help me so I am not here 12 hours just 10 most days. We do not have the staff the big schools do so we have to do all this ourselves and cook also and try and answer all the questions our staff, students and parents have it is way too much... I hope they listen to us and back off some of the regulations and take it slower or soon we won't have any students eating a hot lunch instead they are eating junk that comes in a sack..
Posted by: Gloria Sudman at 9/19/2012 8:30 AM


Although I understand the need to educate our students on good meal choices, I am finding that it has become very unrealistic. This is the second year for me at the High school level; because I had already implemented whole wheat only products last year it was not an issue. We have always served both fresh fruits and vegetables which the kids love, again not an issue. The concern I have is calories. You have to add fluff just to bring it up to what is needed. My leftovers have always been turned into soups. I can no longer do that because it is not on the menu. Kids love soup, served with a whole wheat crusty roll, they are getting a hearty meal. They miss it. I served bananas and put a sign at the end of the serving line (if you do not want your banana please place it in this bowl.) Out of 200 meals served, over 100 bananas were placed in the bowl. These only accounted for the ones placed in the bowl. They were offered apples and plums as an alternative, too much waste. Vendors are trying their best to accommodate everyone, however they are being asked to make portions sizes for different needs. Example: bread portions at the high school level are different than the elementary requirements. Imagine serving a sandwich shaped like a fish to a high school student. I don’t want my burritos per-made. We make them fresh, not frozen. It would certainly be much easier that way, but can you honestly say it is better quality? We as Food Service Managers/Directors should have more say in what we serve based on the needs of our students, keeping in mind quality food at a reasonable price.
Posted by: Maryanne Gallagher at 9/19/2012 8:46 AM


Our kids HATE the new meal pattern. Thay made a video and put it of youtube. It is under we are hungry. The amount of paper work is WAY to much. I do not see how any one can meet buget when you have to serve so much fruit and veg and 1/2 of it goes in the trash the kids do not eat that much thay want the meat and bread not fruit and veg. When the kids go to the store and buy junk after school what good is it to try to feed them this. I am allowed 40 hours a week to cook, clean, and do paper work. I have 2 other people working with me and thay have trouble keeeping up with their work let alone doing part of mine so the paper work suffers. Also our number have dropped to about 50% of 9-12 not eating and K-8 has dropped also. I say go back to the way it was.
Posted by: Rob Brown at 9/19/2012 8:59 AM


I am a high school kitchen manager. We are having a hard time getting the students to take a fruit and vegetable. The comment we hear alot is that they are just going to throw it away. So we are encouraging a bad habit. I belive our program for scratch cooking is a good one. The meals that our cpk kitchen sends are very good and the students like what we offer. I think because the First Lady would like all kid to have health meals the goverment has gone overbroad about what students will eat. At high school they will eat what they want. I think a better approach is to have a salad bar avialble and let students who want it and will eat it take it. When I see a trash can filled with fruits and vegetables I wonder what did we accomplish? This is our tax dollars at work.
Posted by: Madnna Busson at 9/19/2012 9:31 AM


I think we should band together in protesting the amount of work required for certification. I watched about a half hour of the webinar and got so stressed I had to turn it off - it will take hours per menu - I already can't get done in a day what I need to do. It is an over-the-top unrealistic demand on our time. Everyone should write Tom Vilsack, the Secretary of Agriculture, and voice your outrage.
Posted by: Kathy Nervig at 9/19/2012 9:47 AM


We've had a healthy lunch program for the past two years; we cook fresh fruit, vegetables and fresh meats, participate in farm to school, and its been a huge success with the students, staff and parents. What we now face is loss of participation from noticably smaller portion sizes and lack of a side - like a piece of bread. Smaller portions of grain and protein and a high calorie range means the trying to fill in with what I would consider non-nutritive foods like frozen fruit bars. What I'm also seeing is that MANY products that meet new 'whole grain' or calorie/protein/carb requirements are the same highly over processed products with preservative, flavor enhancers, margarine, and allergens like soy, yet its supposedly healthy.
I think without seeing a change to the new rules we'll end up loosing participation and loose the quality food we now serve.
Posted by: Karen Langlois at 9/19/2012 10:22 AM


We have had good and bad compliments on the new menu pattern. My main concern is the kids not getting enought food to get them through the day. If a student does not like something, they are not going to take it, which is even less calories than what we offer. There is a large gap with k-5. That is a big difference in age group. The little kindergarteners may be ok. with that amount of calories, but 3rd to 5th graders it is not. I understand the reason for adding all of the vegetable sub groups, but wouldn't we rather a child just eat some vegetable? If all we offer is a sweet potato, but they would normally eat a regular potato, wouldn't we rather that, than for them not to get a vegetable at all. We are also noticing a lot of students packing now. The school food service programs are going to struggle now. Also our budgets are going to struggle. All of the required foods are more expensive, too. I feel all of this "New Meal Pattern" process was not thought completely through before implementing. I personally am very frustrated due to the amount of work that has to go into planning a menu now. In the past our goal was to feed our students a hot, nutritious meal. Our meal is sometimes the only hot meal they get all day.
Posted by: Tracy Mathews at 9/19/2012 10:37 AM


I also am very frustrated with the new meal pattern lots of work for us working managers. and the 7-12 grade kids that are out for sports need the carbs and protein. I feel they need the rice, pasta they should count different when using with the entree you have to fill the kids up some how. I also am seeing a reduction in numbers.
Posted by: Elaine Burda at 9/19/2012 11:04 AM


It breaks my heart to hear about hungry students. For those schools that have students with food insecurity please consider contacting your local food bank and starting a backpack food program where students take home food for the weekend or even starting a food pantry on your campus (if school policy permits). Hunger is a serious issue. Do not hesitate to go to your school board meeting and bring this to the attention of school board members and administrators.
Posted by: Christne Hicks, RD at 9/19/2012 11:06 AM


http://www.keloland.com/newsdetail.cfm/students-trash-veggies-rather-than-eat-them/?id=137345

Here is a story that happend in our schools. Parents and students are not happy about the cut in serving sizes and cut in calories.....people are now starting to realize that just because you offer more fresh fruits and veggies don't mean the kids will eat them.
Posted by: Darrel Davis at 9/19/2012 12:28 PM


I am the manger of a K-12 school and think it is crazy to be serving the K-3 group the same portions of fruit & vegetables that we serve 4-8. There is so much waste at that age and now it is worse. Who ever the "powers that be", please look at this again. America has become a land of waste and it is starting in kindergarden.
Posted by: V. Keesbury at 9/19/2012 1:30 PM


All of this has taken us too many steps backwards, from all of the hard work that we have done in our district, providing great meals that were not getting our children fat, they were getting them fed! The true reality is you will never get this puzzle to work, you cannot get to the calories on 9-12,while reducing the portions, not in anyway shape or form, and next year will be impossible, as we remove the breading as we do not have any room for another bread, we will be forced to. A two ounce chicken breast is 120 calories at the most, good luck finding another 700 calories in bread, milk and F/V. We have had to reduce our portions on very good products, such as range free chicken, grass fed beef, we used to give a nice chicken quarter,less than 300 calories, now it is just a 2 ounce leg, the complaints were so great, we had to stop that. I have tried to be very positive, but we need to be realistic and say what is really happening out here, it is only going to get worse if we do not. SNA you do not have to be freinds with USDA all of the time, as the leaders and directors we have to be willing to speak the facts even if it hurts. The students are not happy, the parents are not happy, our board is not happy, my staff is not happy. not because of the changes , but because of the need that we can no longer meet. The students are eating, but it is not enough to substain them. Another consequence of all of this, my sanck vending program is through the roof as the kids want more food and I have to bring back ala carte to get them more calories, all steps back from where we were heading, with good portions, good food and good decisions.
Posted by: Scott Soiseth at 9/19/2012 1:52 PM


This maybe USDA's Kudzu of the year 2012
The intent was good, but it was to many changes at one time. Much of this should have been field tested. Putting it into place for this school year was a mistake. The vendors were not ready; and our state's nor the fed's were ready with the information to help us inform parents and employees. This is causing everyone in the nation to struggle and causing great variance in the program.
Directors we need to tell SNA to speak up on our behalf and take control of this situation. Now let's look at the hoops required for the six cents, Are our leaders really that far removed from what goes on day to day in schools? How much more documentation can we do? Six cent is a joke for the expense of these changes. Did we need to make some changes absolutely, but we have lost site of the intent of this program and we are losing participation and creditablity. No one ever looked at the operational legistics of serving-lines, equipment, storage, delivery , the cost of signage,impact on labor, that is all left for us to figure out on our own. We are professionals and it is time we are given the opportunity to give input from the get go not just deal with the fall- out.
Lastly, our programs have been doing great things for many years. We have been increaseing fruits and vegetables, decreaseing fat and sodium. I have no clue where the media or USDA got the menus they published as the "before" menus ,but they were not anything I have ever seen in North Carolina. Let's Speak Up for the professionals that we are, see you at LAC

Cindy Marion
Stokes County School
North Carolina
Posted by: Cynthia Marion at 9/19/2012 2:12 PM


The revised nutrition requirements have had and will continue to cause serious negative impacts on our district, both financially and in student participation. These include:

• The requirement that at least half of the grains must be whole grain-rich, and within two years, all grains offered must be whole grain-rich. All grains offered being whole grain will result in a reduction in student participation as well as cause a much higher food cost than USDA is predicting. There are some breads that are not meant to be whole grain such as pasta and breading on various processed foods. Very few kids are brought up on whole grain pasta; especially here in the South. A better solution would be eliminating the two year regulation of all grains being whole grain-rich and instead, requiring half of the grains to be whole grain-rich continue from here on out. This would line up with the Dietary Guidelines for Americans and not force schools to do more than is recommended to society.
• The requirement that breads be kept within a range (maximum and minimum) per each meal pattern grouping has caused many hours of grief in trying to maintain menu choices for our students while keeping within this very restrictive boundary. It seems a minimum would have been more than sufficient in this category because the calorie guidelines would have restricted the maximum naturally. Please reconsider the maximum on breads.
• The requirement that there be a sodium reduction of over 50% in 10 years. The problem is that USDA states that this will require new technology and/or food products, resulting in much higher food cost as well as potential loss of student participation. It will be difficult for vendors to make any processed food palatable with a 50% reduction in sodium. Also shelf life will be affected causing greater product loss which will in turn cost our programs more. Please stop any further reductions in sodium. We want students to participate in the school lunch program, not choose to bring food from home that will certainly be much higher in sodium than our meals we prepare today (in the first round of sodium reductions.)
Posted by: Lisa Sims at 9/19/2012 3:54 PM


I have read most of the comments. Our problem is that our kids are starving. I am allowing them to take seconds on the salad bar because they are still hungry. Every day I have anywhere from 15 to 30 kids bring a lunch. So what good is an extra .06 cents when I am losing that many lunches a day The kids in our school are not lazy. We live in a rural area, If they do not have football or volleyball practice after school they are working on the farm or at a job. When they get home at 7:oo they are starved. Our kids love the fruit and salad bar, but then they always have. We went from stuffing our kids to starving them.
Posted by: Renae at 9/19/2012 5:34 PM


This new menu is not enough for a small school that can not offer the kids (k-12)more options than the one meal that we serve. And our older students and some younger students are hungry after 2 hours because fruits and vegetables do not stay with the kids as well as proteins and grains. This is very important that these kids eat at school good meals but meals that are made for kids that are not vegetarians. This is going to be a tough year on our kids.
Posted by: Lynn Hronoski at 9/19/2012 6:17 PM


I too am very frustrated!! Our middle school and high school kids are hungry!! Parents and kids are complaining. Participation is down and it is hard not to take the negative comments personally, especially after putting so much work into the whole planning, calculating, etc.. I have always loved my job but for the first time in 12 years, I actually thought about quitting. I can't imagine what next year will bring.
Posted by: Tami Eisenga at 9/19/2012 6:53 PM


I have to agree with Cynthia Marion. I have also won a couple of awards. I have been giving the students fruit and salad bar for 4 years. I give the students two different canned fruits and two to three fresh fruits a day to choose from. I am having a hard time trying to keep the calorie count down for my elementary as my fruit bar has 585 calories. So that would be the only thing they could eat. My students have all been eating salad and fruit since I started this with no problems ,but I was always told by doctors that protein won't make you obese and to eat more of that when you are on a diet. So I was wondering why all of a sudden this has changed.
Posted by: Vicki Thomason at 9/19/2012 8:37 PM


I cook in a small rural school, 450 k-12. We are not getting enough food into our kids, obesity is low here, as we have a large percentage of our students are athletes. I have heard reports of High School kids leaving the cafeteria and heading to the nearest c store for goodies, most parents would rather see the kids eat another entree or more of our wonderful homemade bread. The fruits are a great addition to the meals and have been well received, but do not fill up our kids even the elementary school
Posted by: Becky Green at 9/19/2012 9:26 PM


I don't see anything wrong with serving kids pasta, rice, or potatoes.All the required foods are more expensive. In the past our goal was to serve the kids a hot nutritious meal. To serve the kids all the fruits, vegtables & extra foods that is required of us, well let me say where is the money for this coming from? The 6 cents is a joke.
Posted by: Alice Faye Kickler at 9/19/2012 9:40 PM


Our School is a K-12 feeding 1200 students at 4 schools, with an averaged 70% free and reduced rate.
So many of the previous statements are so true for our schools as well.
I have worked very hard since taking over several years ago in making sure that these children have a good tasting, homemade and nutritious meal daily. Many of our students do not have very much to eat when they are at home due to the poverty levels. Many of our children also tell us ours are the only meals that they get that do not come from packages (some the only meals). Many parents do not know how to cook even a simple meal.
I know that my students in grades 5-12 do need more protein and grains. I totally understand why they want us to limit the protein and grains, so the kids do not fill up on them and will want to eat the fruits and veggies, however it is so hard to see food being thrown away because the little ones just can't eat this much in one setting.
I know I for one, work 10 + hours a day and am unable to complete everything that we are required to do now including "balancing" the menus, paperwork and revising my recipes. Many programs that were not already running in the "red", will now have financial problems!
Posted by: Marsha Wartick at 9/19/2012 10:35 PM


I think it is a great idea to cut fats, sugar and the salts in the lunch items served in the schools. What I have a problem with is the grain allotment. Since we had to cut that we can't serve PBJ everyday. I have children walking out of the lunch line because they can't have one. I guess if they stop eating they will loose weight! The School Lunch Program was set up to make sure school children received a lunch. For some this is the only meal they have and now we have to say no you can't have that piece of bread or that extra piece of fruit? I would like those who made the regulations to come and serve the kids and face them and say no and look at the tears. I have heard comments from kids that they will stop buying. We need to educate them on how to eat healthy and make good choices. Is that extra piece of fruit really bad or the roll with lunch or PBJ everyday? If we serve them enough for lunch at least we know they can complete the school day without a stomach growling because they are still hungry.
Posted by: Deb Murphy at 9/20/2012 7:25 AM


I have read a lot of the comments and have to agree with most of them. I feel that we are here to educate our students how to eat right however we need some help from the parents as well. Kids are going to eat here like they do at home. I'm not sure that families have the time to cook wholesome home cooked meals anymore. I must say this has been a very frustrating school year so far. Even though our school has one awards for our healthy menus the changes have made menu building very difficult. I have never put in as many hours in the 24 years of service as I am now and am not able to keep up. My grocery bills are higher, my labor costs are higher. Our students are taking all the fresh fruits and veggies that we give them but are throwing them in the trash can. We serve about 70% of our students and have about 43% free and reduced numbers. I have had parents call me and tell me that they won't allow their kids to eat here this year because of cost and portion sizes. Yet I have had a some teachers tell me they like the new changes. I realize changes are difficult and wish every one out there the best of luck.
Posted by: Linda Free at 9/20/2012 10:27 AM


I am very opinionated about these new regs and really dont agree with them putting limits on kids meals at school. First I think they need to back off school lunch and put the focus on the parents and what is that kid eating at home? There was time when kids would come home from school, have a snack and GO OUTSIDE TO PLAY, but now all the kids sit in front of the TV playing video games while eating Ho-Ho's and Doritos! Educate the parents first and let them set by example....oh wait parents arent responsible for thier kids now a days! LOL Secondly if this "the only meal" some kids get why are we backing off on portions/servings? I would much rather know that this kid is eating fried chicken and rolls everyday then nothing at all! Third- Surprise-NOT ALL KIDS ARE OBESE!Many kids are student athletes and need the calories and sodium. They will burn off everything they have taken in during practice (unless they are benched) and they need sodium to help prevent them from cramping up!
Back to the basics people! It all starts at home. Here's an idea: Make the PARENTS responsible for their child being obese not School Lunches! And unless you revamp all places that serve food (hospital cafes, reasturants, gas stations, etc) you are doing more harm than good to the school lunch program beacuse if the child does not eat at school when the kid is picked up from school and says "Im hungry" off to McDonald's they go! And soon enough the program will suffer due to lack of participation.
Posted by: Jennifer at 9/20/2012 11:18 AM


I agree with all the former comments. I am a dietetic technician in my 15th year so I will try to be articulate and professional when I say "What were you thinking??" We have been making great healthy strides all these years. But these new regs are actually undoing a lot of the good we have done. And who can follow them? On paper, it looks good, but it really needed to be field tested. Whoever wrote these regs obviously never tried to balance a 7 week cycle out. This is what I see needs to change:
-Remove the upper limits on Grains/proteins or at least increase them, even one extra ounce per week would sure make this easier. I am filling in with sugar to meet calories. Why not just limit sugary desserts and let us keep the whole grains and proteins? Protein is key to maintaining a healthy metabolism, especially for athletes.
-Spending lots of time and losing my sanity trying to stay within kcal, protein and grains with the k-8 and still present a filling meal. We serve k-12 out of one kitchen,so the menu is the same. My only option for meeting kcal for all levels is to play with the portions, which isn't always possible short of cutting a sandwich in half or giving something to the HS that the rest of the school does not get.
-Reduce the serving sizes of fruits and vegetables. Lots going into the trash. Or at least make the vegetables 1/2 cup size for k-8 so it is consistent with the fruits and simpler for us to calculate.
-Eliminate the Standardized recipe requirement. It makes us want to just buy processed, premade food just to measure all the things we need to measure. I admit, we don't have our beloved recipes on cue cards all nice and pretty. And if we make it a little different each time, it is to improve it.
-Eliminate the subgroups of vegetables! It takes an act of congress if I want to change something on my menu now. I have to make sure all the subgroup vegetables are on there,not to mention balancing out the kcal/grains/proteins. We naturally always did put a variety of vegetables on the menu. Could USDA not just say "have three different kinds of vegetables per week"?
-I have spent the better part of my days trying to put together this puzzle.If I move one thing, It throws something else off. It is like trying to put together a Rubik's cube. We had a wonderful 7 week cycle with three lines and I am considering reducing the variety to be able to keep up.
-I am also considering removing our breakfast program. I don't have time to balance it out too. And why did they remove the protein at breakfast??
-I guess I want to know why it has to be so complicated? Can't we just keep it to a few simple guidelines? And if not, then soften the restrictions and requirements that have been set in place.
Posted by: Lynn Rinderle at 9/20/2012 2:28 PM


Although the intentions of the Healthy Hunger Free Kids Act are great; the front line reality is daunting and disapointing. School start up is always a busy time for all of us. Menu planning has always been time consuming, because we are conscientious and want our menus and offerings to be wholesome and healthy. At our schools we do about 70% of entrees from scratch, have had salad, fruit/veggie bars for years and have offered mostly whole grains for the past couple of years. I use nutrient analysis software to plan our menus and production to be sure we are offering our students what they need. Sixty-five percent of our families qualify for free/reduced meals. Our participation is usually 70-75%.
We are a small district with two schools, K-6 and 7-12. Due to financial pressures I am director and manager(s). Menu Planning is more than a full time job now. We have six menus with multiple choices. We are doing the required educational component, but need to find a more time efficient and effective way of labeling the food components. I am all for doing what is necessary to make our meals as healthy as possible. The waste from the mandatory fruit or vegetable is not my biggest concern, (most students will eat cut up fruit if offered several choices and many take full advantage of getting a huge plate of salad veggies).
I agree with many others that the calorie & grain serving sizes and choices are being restricted and for many students this is NOT what they need. Athletes and students with limited access to food at home should be able to choose more.
I am also finding more students bringing home lunches, because they are not satisfied with the school lunches that we had to increase prices on. With the additional costs involved in offering high quality & local foods we can not afford to lose participation. It is the first time I have felt this way in the 24 years as director. Working 10-12 hours per day in order to conform to the multitude of regulations required to do this job and certify for the 6 cents is not making sense.
Posted by: Kathy Civiello at 9/20/2012 5:04 PM


I am a new manager in an 8-12 High School. It is very challenging when all kids eat at the same time. 8th grade gets different than 9-12.I have a hard time deciding how many 8th graders I am going to feed. When you ask a USDA rep about these problems they won't give you any solutions. We have a very dedicated director, without whom I could not have done without. She is our sole support and is trying very hard. I feel the government should have had all of these problems worked out before even thinking about implementing this program. Would really like someone to help us with this situation, but no one seems to know how.
Posted by: Darlene Rogers at 9/20/2012 6:59 PM


Well I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel rather overwelmed by what is thrown upon us this year. Forms, forms and more forms. Regulations? Let's be real, do you really think all of the regulations are going to change how our children eat? Most families have two parents that work who are probably too tired to cook a meal so they pick up you guessed it fast food, then if you have teenagers who drive they probably go to a fast food place if they are at the mall or out and about after the magic dinner hour. There you go, two fast food meals in a day, perhaps skipped breakfast and then we in food service are being dictated to as what we may serve, how much we serve while watching calories, salt and fats...oh don't forget most of us have a high school diploma and we are NOT a dietician. You are demanding that we "fix" the American family after the media throws everything from giaganic cheeseburgers with large fries and a BIGGEE drink value meal, and WE made them fat. Come on!!!!! Then we have to perform the duties of a register dietician while all of you sit at meetings trying to figure out how to make a job most of us loved doing harder and more difficult. I have been in food servive for thiry years and I have to say, this first month has been one of the most difficult I have expierenced. One more thing, do you have any clue how much a single apple costs or a cup of fresh vegetables cost? How do you expect our budgets to stay in the black when you are telling us that we have to do these things. Six cents, come on everyone, just how far do you all feel that will go?

Sincerely,

Sandra Curnow CFSD
Posted by: Sandra Curnow( Visit ) at 9/20/2012 7:47 PM


I am a FSD and we have lost 18% of our participation.The amount of food that is being thrown away is a sin. I counted 37 juice cups that were thrown away in our ES for breakfast. Trying to make a menu is so crazy and also trying to find the right product. The USDA did not give enough time for the manufacturers to come up with this food. I am throughly disgusted that our governement is being so ridiculous on these regulations. So complicated even to apply for the $.06 reimbursement.
Posted by: Cindy at 9/20/2012 7:59 PM


The change was too much and needs to be looked at, our students are packing lunches. They are hungry and school is the only meal about 1/4 of our schools gets, we had some students cry because they were hungry and stated until breakfast at school, they wouldn't have anything else to eat. Fruits & vegetables are healthy but they need more for growing bodies and we are having a lot of waste and high cost. 1.5 oz. of protein for 6-8 grades is not enough only with 1.5 grain in a lunch. I feel yes we need change but it needs to come from home also.
Posted by: vicki at 9/20/2012 8:27 PM


Well, I for one am a ranch raised montanan raised on meat and potatoes. I have worked in the lunch program for over ten years and watched it go from home cooked meals to a lot of pre processed meals. We have gone back to a lot of home cooked meals with meat and vegetables in them. The kids eat them and come back for more. The new meal pattern needs to be sent to the politicians that passed it and let them live on it for a week. The prices for the fruit and vegetables that are going in the trash does nothing for a budget. Kids need protein to grow physically and mentally. All the news reports comment on the fact that we are cutting down on the oils, sugars and fats but nothing is ever said about the protein and milk cuts. Where is the meat boards when it comes to these plans? Sorry, but my kids are eating the same old meals but we are offering more fruits, vegetables and all whole grain products. My participation is about the same and I have my administration behind me on this so far. Take a stand make a point feed the kids the way they need to be fed.
Posted by: Cindy B at 9/20/2012 9:53 PM


The one aspect of the guidelines that causes me the most grief and also puzzles me as to why it is even a requirement, is the narrow calorie ranges. With such specific portion size and food type requirements, it seems logical that once you find foods to fit those specific attributes, you don't have much control over calories. When I planned menus, calories were the last attribute that I took into consideration (pretty unanimous response from other menu planners I spoke with as well). Logically, once all the foods and portion sizes are planned, at that point, unless you're simply adding fats or sugars to certain recipes, you don't have much control over those numbers. I believe the types of foods eaten by students is much more important than the exact number of calories contributed by those foods. It seems arbitrary and burdensome, especially considering these are planned and estimated and, in reality, these numbers will certainly vary and there is no guarantee students will eat every bit of a planned meal. I believe the USDA should either 1) give more leeway on portion sizes of proteins or whole grains or 2) widen the calorie ranges or 3)remove the calorie restrictions altogether (like the fat restriction that was removed). It's not as if schools would take advantage of the lack of a calorie restriction in any negative way and it would allow much more flexibility with menu planning.
Posted by: Sarah at 9/21/2012 8:38 AM


I'm all for healthy eating habit as I see more and more obesity across the board, not only in children, but adults as well. Children are not becoming obese by eating our lunches at school, it's what they eat after they leave at 3:05! Our participation is down considerably and I am hearing comments daily it's because the kids aren't liking the new changes. I am sad, these kids are hungry and still need the grains and proteins to fill them up. Someone please take a look at the new regulations and reconsider!
Posted by: Brenda at 9/21/2012 9:04 AM


We are hearing lots of negative comments on the new meals,from parents & students both. They feel they are not getting enough to eat. We have a lot of elementary students that are now packing lunches (which are not all healthy) & the middle school & high school students are heading out the back door of the school to the convience store up the hill & buying milkshakes, chips & candy. I loved my job until this year, love working with kids & cooking, now I hate the paperwork, the hassle of the menus & all the negative comments. Not sure I will be back next year... The new rules are not teaching the kids healthy eating habits, just making less eat at school!
Posted by: Lynn at 9/21/2012 9:53 AM


As the food service community comes to terms with the scope of the regs, I feel unless there are some modifications and or moderations, the desired impact will not be achieved - in fact, it will have the opposite effect. Others have spoken to this already.
The intent of the changes is admirable, and realizing that several aspects need to be changed does not mean we are not supporting the initiative – I think we all want it to succeed. Rather, we need to change a few key points in order for it to succeed.
1. The 6 cent certification. Never before have we had to certify that we are abiding by the law. We all do. There should be the new meal pattern and the new reimbursement rate, period. Compliance would be checked during the normal review process. The amount of effort that is required to SUCCESSFULLY complete the certification document, especially in a large, complex school is completely onerous. Simply learning the process is daunting. And then to realize you will never need to do it again means the time learning this is very poorly spent. It is akin to learning to fly a plane, only to do it once. Let us go out and work with the staff in the schools to get this right instead of sitting at our desks filling in overly complex worksheets.
2. 100% Whole grain. The move to more WG is a good one, but to force 100 WG in 2 years is not only unrealistic, as some items are just not well suited to this, but will create meals that are just not acceptable to the kids. What’s wrong with 75% WG? You will still be in a much better place than just about every other meal the kid has, while allowing us to have some flexibility with items like crackers, croutons, and even pasta once in a while. If we drive kids away due to this, not only will they not get the whole grains, but we will miss the opportunity to impact them nutritionally at all.
3. Weekly maximums. Having to check multiple lines daily and weekly for meat and grain limits is difficult to say the least without some kind of software assistance. An as we now must use a food based system – who has time to do this? Why can’t we just have daily mins and max that will net the same result - and most likely be more accurate and enforceable? For example, K-5 meat daily range 1-2 oz. 9-12 daily range 2-2.5 oz. Does it really make that much of a difference? Why not make the system usable and easily enforceable?
Please let me know if you support these ideas as I am preparing to bring them to my state SNA. We need moderation in these areas to ensure the success of the HHFKA as a whole.
Posted by: Tim Goossens( Visit ) at 9/21/2012 9:55 AM


I am not liking the changes. I feel that the lunch program as gone down hill. I have lost a helper and there are more bringing home lunch than every before. I feel that we are being asked to do too much and the waste is going up. I have worked with the school lunch program for 19 years and have never been so discouraged and frustrated as I am this year. Please bring back desserts, (at least a cookie for heaven's sake). My participation is going down every day. The kids are confused when they come through the line and I am tired of making excuses as to why they can only have certain items. Please lets do something about this and fast.
Posted by: Nonna Coleman at 9/21/2012 12:03 PM


I am not happy with the changes this year. I think it is ridiculous that the kids can only have potato wedges, or a roll with one of the entrees. This has confused the kids and it takes so much longer getting them through the line because we have to ask every single child what they want. I feel that the numbers have gone down for school lunch since they have taken out desserts. A cookie or a piece of cake is not going to make these kids obese! More kids are bringing lunch from home, which affects our percentage, which affects the hours we are allowed! It's scary thinking that next year we may lose even more hours! The kids do not like the whole wheat tortillas! They used to love the chicken wraps and the soft flour tacos, but they open them up, make a face and throw them away! There is so much waste! I do like the fact that they brought back crinkle fries! The kids love those! I really feel that the system is broken, and it is getting worse! Please reconsider bringing back desserts at least a couple of times a week! I have a 7th grader and and 11th grader. They both have complained of the changes and more and more kids in Jr. High and High School are bringing their lunch from home! What is that telling us? I hope something can change that will encourage these kids to eat school lunch! Thank you for allowing us to voice our opinion! 9/21/2012 Alison Carver
Posted by: Alison Carver at 9/21/2012 12:32 PM


I have worked in the child nutrition program for 7 years now and over the years I've seen many changes and each one not for the better. I was asked by my oldest school age daughter this year if I'm embarrassed to be a lunch lady this year and I said YES I AM!!! The changes implemented this year a absolutely ridiculous!! SCHOOL LUNCH DOES NOT MAKE KIDS FAT!!! My own daughters refuse to eat school lunch and take home lunch every day!! I work in our dish room and I see the amount of food children throw away and it's discusting. They have to have a fruit and or vegetable on their tray but only 1 in 20 will actually eat it!! There are thousands of dollars in food thrown away every day in my school alone. I work more and get paid less every year, how is that right? If you want to affect real change bring back the schoold PE programs and put back school lunch to how it was % years ago!! Kids will want to eat lunch then and won't bring home lunch!! I truly hope you listed to the true outcry of irratition we are all feeling as parents and workers and take to heart our suggestions.
Posted by: Tracy Maccarthy at 9/21/2012 12:41 PM


I truly feel this change is just another example of gov. intrusion that have no business in our lives. I have had many parents complain that their children are coming home hungry because there is such a push for a diet that does not give them enough protein, and carbs to last them through the day. These children go outside for recess and burn everything they ate within minutes. The idea that we have to put every child on a fruit and veg. diet is missing the fact that every childs nutritional needs are different and individual. For example my children are under weight and are always needing a much higher calarie count with more carbs, protein than others. I have to shake my head when we are actually weighing every morsel of cheese and on and on.
This is ridiculous how once the gov. sticks their foot in the door, they have to try to control every asspect of your life. My son has come home from High school complaining of the all whole wheat rolls, pasta, soft flour tortillas, and brown rice.I have seen children here at this elementary lunch room I work at take one bite of their wheat tortilla, pull a face, and throw it away. I watched one kid run up to our lunch room helper with his hand over his mouth looking like he was going to loose it. She came over to me laughing because he told her,"Remind me never to get these again, I almost threw up twice." They were the sweet potatoe tots we have served the last two years which the high majority will not take. Serving real food that our children love will bring back participation and for goodness sake a dessert once in a while will not cause these children to be fat!! It starts in the home people, not at school. I work with very fit lady's here and we have eaten school lunch most of our life and not one of us is over weight. It is a individual decision to eat right, not the governments.
Posted by: Shelli Brown at 9/21/2012 12:49 PM


I also agree with the push on fruits and vegetables. It made us extend our varieties offered, but we are all high school and our kids are asking "Where's the Beef?". I totally disagree with the protein maximums.
It is so hard to meet calories. Our menu person spends more time trying to make the puzzle fit than on the menu itself. The certification worksheet is time consuming and to think we will have to do it yearly???? I would like the USDA to reestablish its trust in us that we do the best we can for our students. Why can't we fill our students up so they are not as likely to run to Big Mac's after school? Perhaps we should hold the Congressional Cafeteria to these limits for a year.
Posted by: Charlene Story at 9/21/2012 12:51 PM


I have been cafeteria manager for 24 years nad never been so frustrated. We are not responsible for childhood obesity. We are certainly going to do our share to fight it. The new rules and reg. our killing our lunch programs. Most of us are very aware and practice good nutrition. Please reconsider the new rules and reg. You are losing some very caring people because of the work load.
Posted by: Shirley Kellstadt at 9/21/2012 1:02 PM


This menu pattern is designed for the 30% of our students who are overweight/obese. the 70% will not get enough to eat. What is the sense in that? We should refer the 30% to doctors and provide them support at school. And to revert to the outdated CN label that does not ensure quality is senseless too. Many districts were already serving quality foods prepared well and served in style. Why not ensure compliance in those districts who are not following the rules?
Posted by: Julie Farris at 9/21/2012 4:09 PM


While the regulations were made with good intent, we are getting negative feedback. We were already feeding the kids healthy foods with a variety of fruits and veg. on the salad bar, as well as whole grains. The participation in our lunch program has gone way down. The kids are complaining that they are still hungry. The parents are saying their kids are coming home starved. The Kwik Stop and the grocery store are overwhelmed with business at lunch now from our high school kids because our lunch just doesn't fill them up. Some of our kids come at 6 in the morning for one activity or another and may not get home until 6 at night so you can see that they need more than 2 oz. of bread and 2 oz. of meat and some fruits and veggies. The portions go over better with the little kids than they do with the older ones.
We are experiencing lots of waste as well because they throw away things they have to take but don't want. It has also been a big stress causing headache for me because I spend lots of time off the clock trying to get it to work because everyone is depending on me to get the 6 cents.
Posted by: Karen French at 9/21/2012 10:37 PM


I do agree that my participation is lower than last year. But so far I have had good results with the fruit choices. I have increased (with very little waste) about 25 percent on fresh fruits. And I so gree that the problem of obese children did not happen because of school lunches, or our breakfast programs. I have children that come for breakfast with cookies, brownies, and even latte. They consume this first thing with their breakfast or throw part of breakfast away. What child wants to finish thier chicken patty or saus if they can eat the cookies etc. The most disturbing part is the young child with the latte from Starbucks she is in 2nd grade.
How can we as serious and professional food and nutrition staff members take the blame for poor nuttition or obesity when this is what we sometimes have to contend with.
Lunches at times from home are scary. Soda, chips cookies, lunchables, little jugs of what I call sugared colored water. No vitamins, no nutrition. Our district has some of the most incredible managers and staff members who care so much about our program. We need to train some parents to understand what they feed thier children effects them much more than the healthy meals we take time and caring to serve.
Hopefully as the year progresses we will all see an increase in our participation and good nutrition and understanding from our students in how important their eating habits can be.
Posted by: Bonnie H( Visit ) at 9/22/2012 8:30 AM


Our students, parents,teachers and administrators have always been very supportive of our nutrition program and for the most part, they continue to do so. In small to medium districts, the planning that is required for meeting meal pattern requirements means that there are other areas of our programs that are not getting the attention they require. The other thing that really does not make much sense is the limits imposed on M/MA and Grains. If we meet the calorie limits, then we will have to stay in a reasonable range with protein and grain. It seems a little too much with restricting all of these areas. I agree with the post prior to mine that we have many students that are not obese and that are very active that will not have their calorie or in some cases carbohydrate needs met, especially at the 9-12 grade level. Our students will simply supplement that out of the vending machine or the student store. I also think that the implementation timeline was a fantasy. Not only is it very difficult for school level and state level folks to get everything together to make this happen this school year but it was completely unrealistic to expect distributors and manufacturers to be able to meet this timeline. There were some gaping holes in the planning part of the implementation. USDA should have met with people at all levels to help with the realistic implementation of this new meal pattern that would not have had the negative impact that this has had for some districts. I know we have all heard about the 4000 kids that walked out on one program in the Mid-West as well as some of the programs on the east coast that were severely impacted. This could have been prevented with better planning and the inclusion of affected parties in the planning. The meal pattern is what is healthy for our students but it needs some major tweaking.
Posted by: Paige Holland( Visit ) at 9/23/2012 12:16 PM


I forgot to mention in my original comment that our future requirement to serve ALL whole grain rich grains is ridiculous seeing that it's only recommended that half of grains be whole. Why on earth are we being asked to do more than that? Once again, USDA is being too prescriptive. It was hard enough to find enough whole grain rich products to meet the 50% requirement. I can't imagine not having any leeway with that at all. It's unrealistic. Someone above mentioned the new meal patterns being a puzzle and that's so true. We're not planning meals anymore, we're just plugging foods into the puzzle, and hope they make a little sense together.
Posted by: Crystal Thill at 9/24/2012 12:00 PM


The HHFK menu fits perfectly for the Preschool-third grade set! However, our menus now feature chocolate pudding, fruit in gelatin, nonfat chocolate or strawberry milk and full fat dressings to get to enough calories for my upper grades.

Needless to say, all these items have a higher rate of student acceptability, but it may be at the expense of not consuming produce that day. We had none of those items on the menu last year; at the face it, these items replaced the grain bread or products we offered last year.

In our effort to make sure we get the half cup fruit or vegetable on each plate AND keep the serving line moving, we have had to decrease food items served at our windows at larger schools. One way we achieve this is to offer only one entree most days. This may hurt participation; time will tell.

Too early to panic about the waste in trash, but my sites tell me they are concerned about it.

Waiting to hear about how my certification packet went! Just got submitted. If I may speak for the many very small schools in my county, they are in a dead panic on what they need to do.
Posted by: Denise Ohm, SNS at 9/24/2012 1:07 PM


I did not mention in a former comment, we have more and more high school bringing lunches. We cannot give them enough food to last until school is over. If USDA would just lift the grain requirement it would be a good lunch. We were feeding our children well in the past and 5 meals a week does not cause obesity.
I am so discouraged trying to make all of this work and the hours we are putting in seems hopeless at this point for a good program. It is hard to be excited about something when you can see it failing all around you......
Posted by: Analee Knudsen at 9/27/2012 11:25 AM


I do not understand all the complaints about students not receiving enough food. The 2010 Dietary Guidelines for Americans suggest the following caloric ranges for school children:

Females 4-8 1200 to 1800
9-13 1400 to 2200
14-18 1800 - 2400

Males 4-8 1200 to 2000
9-13 1600 to 2600
14-18 2000 to 3200

The NMP requirements fit well within these ranges as a PERCENTAGE of daily caloric intake.

Breakfast K-5 350-500 kcal
6-8 400-550 kcal
9-12 450-600 kcal

Lunch K-5 550-650 kcal
6-8 600-700 kcal
9-12 750-850 kcal

For the sake of space, I am not going to provide the percentage ranges of calories that school meals provide. Remember the AVERAGE human above the age of 2 is recommended to take in 2,000 kcal per day. If athletes or more active students want more food, they should bring snacks or eat more at home. School meals are designed to provide a PERCENTAGE of daily caloric and nutrient intake, not all of it.
Posted by: Chef Jasun Zakro at 9/27/2012 12:40 PM


We are still trying to "transition" and feeling the pressure. We need affordable cold choice options for our students...they miss the yogurt with animal cracker choice and struggling to make logic for a 2221 day for those items. Need a PB & J option too that makes fits in this pattern for our k-5 kids. Not enough hours in the day to work on the constant revisions..I'm waiting to certify. Hate to not collect that .06 but until we get done figuring out solutions we aren't ready. Meal participation is down.
Posted by: Christine Woods at 9/27/2012 1:38 PM


Frustrated is an understatement!!! I'm a new manager and I'm very excited about my job, kids, nutrition, everything...but talk about taking the FUN out of things! I have all the desire in the world to feed my kids great, healthy, nutritious meals(as we all do)but the restrictions..Wow I agree with Denise who wrote of the jello and pudding w/topping craze that is now a regular because of the need for calories!Somebody PLEASE take a good look at what WE are saying. We in the trenches who are actually trying to implement these regulations. Listen to the feedback and let's come up with some great solutions...lessen some restrictions. Let's get back to showing our futures(our kids) how to feed themselves a more nutritious,healthy,fun meal, in a positive way instead of a No you can't have 2 and you have to take that atmosphere. My kids are secondary school kids and they challenge us all the time by asking,Why do i Have to take it? I'm just going to throw it away! You want me to Waste FOOD! Yea ,How and What do you say to that.
Posted by: Teri Crane at 9/27/2012 7:51 PM


Someone will probably shoot me for this....we have a "no thank you" table where kids put stuff that they have not opened or bitten into, so they put the string cheese, the apple, the banana, milk, etc, on the no thank you table and almost always someone else picks it up and eats it, so not so much waste. I'm sure the food police would come get me if they knew!
Posted by: Dianne at 9/30/2012 8:10 PM


There will be problems with students' consumption of canned and frozen fruits if there is no added sugar allowed. One of our suppliers who specializes in providing pre-portioned fruit, such as applesacue and pearsauce cups, already cut out added sugar. What was once a tasty and popular product, kids will no longer eat. They actually spit it out as it was not the product they had come to know. Can you imagine trying to serve the commodity strawberries without any added sweetener? No one will eat them. Sugar is not evil. The last time I checked, excess calories, not sugar, caused overweight. Back off a bit and let's be realistic about making these changes.
Posted by: Kris at 10/8/2012 5:15 PM


I do not blame my high school students for their "you've got to be kidding" comments on taco day for one...a 10 inch whole grain tortilla is huge...and looks totally empty with only 2 ounces of taco meat and a mere 1 ounce of cheese (pre-measured in cups)...and I am using 3 ounces of protein on taco day or they couldn't even have cheese!!! Perception can lead to acceptance or negative comments...with the new regulations, taco day which was once a hit is now negative comment day
Posted by: Michelle at 10/16/2012 12:10 PM


Counts are low at every school, even the elementary which surprises me. I've in-serviced our teachers, some PTO's and also been invited into some of our classrooms. 2 ounces of meat on a deli den sandwich just looks sad. We really can't do hoagies any longer. No cheeseburgers, pepperoni or hot wing pizza. Our kids always ate fruits and veggies, its the portion size. Parents are saying it's not worth the money any longer. We keep fighting and educating. Hope it changes.
Posted by: Joanne Pesota at 10/16/2012 12:27 PM


My district was finally certified! Mind you, I had to submit 3 menus to reflect the grade levels of schools we serve. All three packets submitted had issues on calories (between 40-80 had to be pared off or in some cases, added). Now that sounds very simple to adjust, right? Every time one touches one document, many others are affected.

For example, one document due in the certification packet is the SP34 excel spreadsheet. This spreadsheet is bascially a way to report milk, vegetable subgroups (amounts/specific names) and grains. That sheet alone is no less than 12 tabs and up to 29 columns on some tabs.

All this must, of course, match the nutrient analysis exactly and the menus submitted by grade level.

Becoming certified was truly a monumental task, lots more like a juggling act (calories and bread servings) than menu planning. Good luck to you all.

By the way, my schools who are now offering less menu items are down an average of 40 meals daily. Maybe for Xmas we will get a bit of relief on some of this for our upper grade menus especially. All I want for Christmas is some flexibility!!!
Posted by: Denise Ohm at 12/4/2012 7:42 PM


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